Marketing for SMEs Podcast: Vince Warnock on 7 Pillars of Thought Leadership

I had a great conversation with Vince Warnock on the Marketing for SMEs podcast. Vince is a bestselling author, keynote speaker, and the founder of Chasing the Insights — a business built around helping entrepreneurs find their voice, tell their story, and position themselves as the thought leaders they already are. 

If you work with Australian SMEs and wonder whether content and authority actually move the needle, this episode is worth your time. We get into the research behind thought leadership, why being a published author sits at the top of the list, and what Vince says to the business owner who’s convinced they have nothing worth saying. 

At Digital Goliath, we see this gap all the time — great operators who are invisible online. This conversation gets into why that happens and what to do about it.

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Introduction

Jeremy Yang: Welcome back to another episode of Marketing & AI for SMEs. Today I’m with Vince Warnock. He’s a bestselling author, keynote speaker, and was a radio DJ for a while, which is going to be interesting to talk about. 

He’s been on both ends of the marketing sphere — done the corporate thing and run his own businesses. He’s a former CMO, and I’m really grateful to have him as a guest. He came recommended by Philippa James, another guest of mine. Welcome to the show, Vince.

Vince Warnock: Oh my goodness, man. I’m so happy to be here, Jeremy. Thank you.

Jeremy Yang: No worries. Look, my intro doesn’t do you any justice, so I’ll let you run through your own thing before we get into the bulk of it.

From Dream Job to Completely Unfulfilled

Vince Warnock: The main thing to know is I’ve been in and out of corporate and startups through most of my career. I came off the back of selling our largest startup — a multi-eight-figure exit — after three and a half years of a lot of stress and anxiety. And then I became the Chief Marketing Officer at Suncorp Insurance.

On paper, it was the dream job. I was CMO of a Fortune 100 company. I got recognised by Adobe as one of the top 50 marketers in the world. Published my first book while I was there. Got to travel the world speaking on stages. And I was absolutely miserable. I hated my job.

I had a lot of shame and guilt around that too, Jeremy, because it was the dream job. Most marketers would kill for that job. And I had it and didn’t want it, and kept thinking — what’s wrong with me?

It wasn’t until I really started analysing why I was so miserable that I realised I was completely unfulfilled. I was in a position where people were treated as dollar signs and numbers. I wasn’t helping anybody other than the bottom line of a large corporate.

And one thing you learn when you’re at that level — I don’t care what the company is — there’s a level of moral bankruptcy that is just unacceptable to me. So I realised I needed to get back to what I’m passionate about, which is helping people.

Off the back of some major research we did while I was there around what thought leadership actually is, I took everything I’d learned — years in marketing, AI, publishing — and decided: right, we’re going to do something to help entrepreneurs.

And that’s led me to where I am now. It’s the most fulfilling thing I’ve ever done in my life. I still have to pinch myself — we just get to help people and have a lot of fun. That’s kind of crazy to me.

Jeremy Yang: Yeah, and you’re actually really accessible too. Like if I wanted to get hold of someone like you, it’s not three or four months away. You’re not gatekept. That’s rare at your level.

Vince Warnock: Yeah. And that’s intentional. The CEO at Suncorp actually hired me for a very specific reason — he recognised that a large corporate like that needs entrepreneurial energy in there, people who can create from within. So he brought in a bunch of us who were entrepreneurs.

And we made a massive impact. The revenue of that company doubled over the five years I was there. It was great results. But still very unfulfilling.

The 13 Things That Make People See You as a Thought Leader

Jeremy Yang: So you’ve mentioned thought leadership research. You broke it down on another podcast — seven primary things and six secondary ones. Do you want to walk through that?

Vince Warnock: Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things I learned inside a large corporate is they have people on retainer being paid a lot of money to do nothing. I hate wastage. So I thought — we’ve got these research companies sitting there, let’s get them to do something useful.

We had two companies — one qualitative, one quantitative — and said: find out what thought leadership is. Both came back with almost exactly the same answer: thought leadership is you having something to say that’s compelling or interesting enough that people want to hear it.

Which is not helpful at all when you’re trying to actually position yourself as a thought leader.

But within that research, we found 13 specific things that, when you do them, people perceive you as a thought leader. It doesn’t change who you are — it changes their perception of you. That was the key finding. We broke it into seven primary pillars and six secondary pillars.

Jeremy Yang: And one of the primary ones is podcasting. And one of your babies is the book side — the authorship piece.

Vince Warnock: Exactly. The top seven, in order:

Number one by far is being a published author. We actually brought in neuroscientists and psychologists to explain why. Once you understand the cognitive biases and the neuroscience behind it, it makes perfect sense.

Number two is having your own platform — a podcast, radio show, TV show, a summit where you bring people on. That’s a powerful pillar.

Number three is going on other people’s platforms — like what I’m doing right now, coming on your show.

Number four is awards and recognition.

Number five is being featured in the press — having external recognition from others.

Number six is consistent thought leadership content — actually having presence and putting stuff out there regularly.

Number seven is a TEDx talk, which is the one thing we don’t help with, because I’ve never done one myself. So yeah.

Jeremy Yang: I read your book Mindful Marketing — good book. And what I kept noticing is that wherever there’s marketing or advertising happening, someone’s going to try and exploit it. There’s always ingenuity happening on the other side of the coin. But you’ve already had your big exit. You’re not doing this for money anymore, are you?

Vince Warnock: That’s exactly it. One of the most satisfying things we do is work with neurodivergent entrepreneurs — people with ADHD, people with dyslexia, who were always told they’d never be able to write a book.

I still remember when I was seven — this is back in the 70s, mind you, when teachers could say all sorts of nasty things. I had a teacher trying to figure out why I couldn’t read or write properly. Her conclusion was simple: “You’re never going to read or write properly, Vince.” And she said something truly awful on top of that.

Turns out my brain was just way faster than hers. I was struggling to get my hands to keep up with what my brain was doing. So for me, getting to help those people — that’s everything.

The Moment a Client Opens Their First Book

Vince Warnock: One of the rules we have when a client publishes their book: we send them the author copy — the proof copy. But they’re not allowed to open it until they’re on Zoom with me.

It’s my little selfish thing. They rip open the envelope, pull out the book, and you see that look of accomplishment on their face. “Oh my goodness. I’m an author. I did this.” You see that glint in their eye. It is the most fulfilling thing.

And even more so when you’re working with someone who has faced barrier after barrier in their life.

One of my favourite clients — I’m not supposed to say favourite — is fully dyslexic. When his first book arrived, I’m waiting for the glint in his eye, the little smile. Nothing. Blank. Just looked at me.

My own insecurities kicked in. I’m thinking, he hates it. He hates the cover. He hates everything. And then he just burst into tears. This is a big guy — retired military, very much a “manly man.” Bawling his eyes out on a Zoom call because he’d done what he always thought he’d never be able to do.

That is a very special moment. That’s why we do what we do. We don’t do it for the money. We do it to change people’s lives.

Jeremy Yang: Yeah, big time. I heard you tell that story and I was genuinely emotional. Because I was thinking — that is a massive thing for him.

I was listening to all your neurodivergent stuff and thinking — I don’t have that. I can just go finish one thing, no matter how boring it is. That’s my thing.

Vince Warnock: Man, I’m so jealous of that.

What It’s Actually Like to Have ADHD

Jeremy Yang: I understood from listening to you that people with ADHD need a few things cooking at the same time.

Vince Warnock: Yeah. The best way to explain it is something called the ten brain theory. The idea is you have ten brains active at the same time, on different topics. You can’t shut them out. And this leads to something called hyper-stimulation.

Supermarkets are terrible for me. I can hear every conversation around me — I have very good hearing over long distances, which makes it even worse. So I’m hearing every conversation, trying to filter it. 

And at the same time you’ve got music on one side of the store, music on the other, and then some moron with their phone on speakerphone — and all of this input is hitting your brain at once.

I remember not long after we’d moved to Australia from New Zealand, I was at the supermarket. One job, Jeremy. Get almond butter for my wife. There were only three types of almond butter. I’m standing there.

And all these senses got overloaded. Then someone bumped into me with their trolley — not their fault — but that extra input made my brain shut down completely. I’m just standing there, staring.

Then I feel a tap on my shoulder. A little old lady. She looks at me and says: “Are you okay, love?”

And my brain is going: tell her what you’re here for. And I just said: “I’m in butter.” Then: “ADHD.”

As soon as I said that, she goes: “Okay love, let me help you.” And she was wonderful. I’d apparently been standing there for five minutes staring at three types of almond butter.

That’s very rare for me, but it shows what we’re dealing with. All that input coming in at once.

Vince Warnock: The low dopamine side is the other piece. You can have a day where your brain just goes: I can’t do it. I really can’t. And when you were a kid you were just told: try harder, work harder, just get started. But it’s next to impossible, because the thought of doing the work actually reduces your dopamine further.

We’ve had people with worse ADHD than mine being misdiagnosed with narcolepsy — their body just shuts down, they fall asleep, because even thinking about work triggers it.

But the upside — the creativity, the ten brains all thinking at once, the pattern recognition across all of them. You can see obscure connections that other people can’t. I would never take away my ADHD, even with all the downsides.

The Teacher Who Changed Everything

Jeremy Yang: You mentioned the teacher who said something awful when you were seven. But there was another teacher — the one who got you to do a five-minute talk?

Vince Warnock: Yes. And honestly, that story led me to pretty much everything I’m doing now.

I was eleven. I won’t go fully into my backstory, but I grew up in a very abusive home, in poverty. Up to age eleven I basically had no sense of any future for myself.

I had a teacher, Mr. Few, who was just inspiring. He told us we had to work on school projects and do oral presentations. I scoffed. When are any of us ever going to need to do an oral presentation? He challenged me on it. And then he said: “Okay, how about now?”

He got me up in front of the class. “Vince is going to talk for five minutes. Class, what’s the topic?”

Eleven-year-olds came up with: the egg.

I had 20 seconds to prepare. The only thing in my head was “what came first, the chicken or the egg?” So I opened with that. And then something kicked in — I went to another part of my brain and everything just flowed.

I was on a high at the end of it. I could pull a string and people would laugh. Pull another and they’d gasp. The class erupted. And a little part of me thought: I just proved you wrong. I’m good at this.

But then Mr. Few did something I didn’t expect. He got down to my level, held me by the shoulders and said: “Vince, listen to me. You have a talent. Do you realise you could do something significant with your life?”

I had never felt more valued. Never felt more seen.

It taught me that I don’t have to be a product of my upbringing. I don’t have to be a product of my past. I can write my own future.

And it put something in me — this desire that other people need that too. Our overriding principle across all our businesses is: everybody deserves a voice. Everybody has a story. Everybody deserves to have that story told.

Jeremy Yang: So the authorship side isn’t just for entrepreneurs?

Vince Warnock: Not at all. We do focus on entrepreneurs because that’s where our expertise is. But honestly, we just want to help people feel seen and heard and get their stories out there.

What to Say to the Person Who Thinks They Have Nothing to Say

Jeremy Yang: A lot of SME owners watching this will be thinking: I haven’t done what Vince has done. I haven’t taken those kinds of risks. What do you say to them?

Vince Warnock: First of all — you’re far more capable than you think. And I’d push back on the idea that you don’t take risks. I think you take calculated risks. It has to be completely thought out before you act. That probably comes from your own history, your own wiring.

I’m a risk-taker because it’s what kept me alive growing up. Others avoid risks for that exact same reason — it’s what kept them safe.

But here’s the thing: nothing good happens by standing still. Nothing good happens inside your comfort zone. The biggest challenge I see entrepreneurs have is constant self-doubt. I don’t have enough of a story. I don’t have enough skills. Nobody does. Right?

And part of that comes from comparing yourself to other people. I do this myself. I look at other entrepreneurs and think, I wish I had their experience, their audience, their skills. The problem is — that’s my perception of them. That’s not who they are.

I know this because I got to meet most of my heroes in marketing. There were 25 of us at a dinner as the first cohort of Adobe’s top 50 marketers program. I’d read every book of every person at that table. And when we started talking, I realised they all had the same insecurities as me. Every single one.

It made me realise I’ve got as much right to be at the table as any of them. And that these people I’d put on a pedestal — I assumed nothing bad had ever happened to them, that they’d never had to struggle. That’s absolute rubbish. I just see the external-facing version. I don’t see what they deal with every day.

So stop comparing yourself to people. When you do that, and you start looking at where you are now versus where you were, you start to see the traction. And that gets you more open to taking risks, more open to realising how capable and talented and creative you actually are.

And to sum it all up — we’re just way too hard on ourselves.

Has Anyone Ever Genuinely Had Nothing?

Jeremy Yang: Have you ever spoken to someone and genuinely found there was nothing there?

Vince Warnock: No. I honestly don’t think I’ve ever found anyone who can’t write a book. Unless you’re five years old and haven’t lived anything yet.

I worked with a client who was brand new to their industry — had just moved from retail into marketing. They were saying: I’m just making this up as I go. And I said: great. Tell that story. There are so many people who want to make the exact same transition. Tell them what it’s like.

I had a conversation with Seth Godin about this, actually, because I was doing the usual New Zealand self-deprecation — obviously my book is never going to be as good as yours. And he really tore strips off me.

He said: “You and I could write the exact same book on the exact same topic — and we probably will, given our industries. But some people will read mine and it just clicks. Others will read mine and something doesn’t land. Then they’ll read yours — and because of your stories, your experience, the way you illustrate things — it connects deeply. They’ll go: now I get it. Because they’ve been through what you’ve been through. You came from poverty. I didn’t.”

Never underestimate how many people are out there waiting for you to show up and tell your story — because that’s what’s going to make them feel like they have hope.

The Three Barriers to Writing a Book

Vince Warnock: If I look at the three biggest barriers I hear from people:

One: “I don’t have enough experience.” That’s absolute nonsense. Your story so far is already going to help people. You don’t need to be three steps ahead — you just need to be further along than the people you’re helping. 

And by the way — “fake it till you make it”? You’re not faking anything. If you know where you’re heading and you’re doing the steps, you’re not pretending. There’s real power in that.

Two: “What right do I have to write a book? People will find out I’m making this up as I go.” Of course you are. That’s what it means to be an entrepreneur. You’re pioneering. You’re outside your comfort zone — that is exactly where you’re supposed to be.

And on imposter syndrome — stop fighting it or running from it. Embrace it. If imposter syndrome is screaming at you, all that means is: you’re outside your comfort zone, and your brain is trying to keep you safe. That’s it. Acknowledge it. Hey brain, you’re doing a great job keeping me safe. Thank you. But we’ve got this.

Three: “I don’t know what book to write.” Most people think they have to write a memoir. You don’t. Nobody knows who you are unless you’re super famous. What you need is a book that solves a problem. 

What outcome do you give clients? What’s the one thing you want to resolve for them? Pick one thing, not everything. Bring that to life through your stories. That’s the most powerful kind of book. That’s what gets you recognised.

Jeremy Yang: I’m going to write one of these books, Vince. I’m telling you right now. It’s a hundred percent going to happen.

Vince Warnock: Absolutely you are. I’m going to hound you until you do.

How the Process Actually Works

Jeremy Yang: So if someone gets in touch with you — what actually happens? What does the process look like?

Vince Warnock: The first step is a strategy call with me. Not everything suits everyone. Even though everyone has a book in them, it might not be what’s right for you right now. Maybe you need leads more than anything, so a podcast is actually the better move. Or maybe you need to build presence first — events, summits, building an email list.

So we work out what’s best. And those calls are free. No charge. You can walk away and do it yourself — that’s totally valid. But if you want support, that’s when we have that conversation.

And once someone’s on board, we don’t do the old model anymore — here’s a book, here’s the cost, pay upfront. Because a lot of our clients are neurodivergent and they’re never just writing one book at a time. They’re writing five or six books simultaneously. They also need marketing help, podcast help, all of it.

So we moved to a publishing as coaching model. You come and work with me — weekly, fortnightly, or monthly depending on your needs — and you get the coaching plus full access to all our services. Our publishing team handles the production side. You just have to show up and write.

The first thing we do together is a kickoff session: what are the priorities? Let’s build a roadmap. Here’s where you are now, here’s where you’ll be in one month, three months, six months. That framework covers the publishing company, the podcast management company, the done-for-you marketing agency — all of it sits under the same umbrella.

We even had a client who took three years to finish a book under the old model because they’d paid upfront and there was no urgency. Now with the coaching model, they’re motivated. If they can get it done in three months, they’re only paying for three months. That’s a completely different mindset.

Jeremy Yang: Yeah. And I love the bundled approach because marketing is so siloed everywhere else. You go to one person and they say we don’t do that — and you’re like, well that’s what I came for.

Vince Warnock: Exactly. That’s the problem. People end up signing with this person and that person and paying a fortune. That’s literally why we changed the model.

Key Takeaways

• Thought leadership is about perception, not personality. Research identified 13 specific actions that shift how others see you. You don’t need to become a different person — you need to take the right steps. Being a published author is number one by a significant margin.
• Your story is enough. Whether you’ve built a company or you’re just starting out, there are people who need to hear exactly where you are right now. You don’t need Seth Godin’s career to write a useful, meaningful book. You need your own experience, told honestly.
• Imposter syndrome is not the enemy. It’s your brain telling you that you’re outside your comfort zone — which is exactly where growth happens. The reframe Vince suggests: acknowledge it, thank your brain for trying to keep you safe, and keep going.
• The book you need to write is not a memoir. It’s a problem-solving book built around one clear outcome you give people, illustrated through your own stories. Start there.

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